It’s Easier to Tolerate Sinners in Christianity Than in Veganism

Despite the reputation that Christians have for being judgmental, the Christian view of non-believing sinners is potentially more forgiving than veganism’s. Christians want to save sinners from themselves, or from Satan, or, you could also say, from God’s overblown standards. Though Christians wouldn’t exactly put it this way, their conception of saving frames God as the brutal one, allowing souls to roast in eternal hellfire for sometimes minor infractions like unbelief. God punishes sinners with divine wrath to satisfy a selfish desire for worship. In veganism it is the sinners themselves who are the brutes, victimizing innocents to satisfy their selfish desires for taste and convenience.

I was raised without religion, but I went through a Christian phase in middle school. My best friend at the time was a Baptist, and for a couple of years, going to church with him filled the meaning vacuum that my parents had left empty. I became especially fervent about my newfound faith after a week at Bible summer camp, which was a wimpier, less over-the-top version of Jesus Camp. I didn’t make an effort to save my atheist family, because I knew there was no hope, but I regularly imagined them in hell, screaming in agony (forever and ever). It was a horrifying image, particularly since I thought they didn’t deserve it. I didn’t see my unbelieving family members as bad people. I just thought they were woefully ignorant of God and his stringent rules. 

In veganism, on the other hand, the non-believers aren’t passively violating a perhaps unfair technicality — they are actively doing horrible things.

Christian reader once emailed me:

The moral dilemma for vegans in meat-eating families is amazing. A Christian like myself may disapprove of homosexual actions, but we don’t believe that a homosexual is (in all cases) doing more than moral-spiritual harm to himself and a consenting partner. We may become loathsome in trying to transmit our beliefs into social mores and taboos. But we have nothing like the psychic tension of the vegan. A vegan believes something like a crime or injustice is being committed in their face. As “annoying” as they can be, I almost feel bad for them, as that is a terrible burden to carry.

This is not to say that all Christians actually do tolerate non-Christians better than vegans tolerate non-vegans. It’s just that the Christian idea of sin often being a strictly personal problem can make it easier to tolerate sinners than in veganism’s conception, where sin is more relevant for its violent external ramifications. It’s easier to avoid contempt for those who are harming only themselves. I wanted to tell my family about Christ to do them a favor. Vegans want to tell us about Soy to do animals a favor. Christianity must spread in order to rescue us from becoming the tortured playthings of Satan. Veganism must spread in order to rescue animals from becoming the tortured playthings of us.

Vegans don’t typically believe in Hell, but many do think that meat eaters will be punished for their sinful eating with heart attacks and premature death, nature’s punishment for all the cholesterol, saturated fat and cruelty we consume.

And as far as many vegans are concerned, we deserve it.

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"Though, I am still hurt every time I see a very close friend eat meat/dairy just because a) I love them b) they are my friends because I respect so much about them c) they are very well aware of all the arguments for veganism/against the opposite and so d) I battle to reconcile my love & respect for them with my disdain for and utter incomprehension of their behaviour."
Jkaska

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Should Vegans Have a Blood-Drenched Wedding?

bloodybride

It’s amazing how much talk of vegan weddings Chelsea Clinton’s non-vegan wedding generated.

Since The New York Times, Gawker, Jezebel, Feministe and Vegansaurus! gave their respective takes, a lot of people have been asking me “What does Let Them Eat Meat think about vegan weddings?” Well, the blog has changed over time so I can’t speak for the entire thing, but I can tell you what it thinks now.  

Let them be vegan!

Sure, if I’m at a wedding, I’d rather the reception have meat. But if two vegans are getting married, I expect it won’t. And I can understand why it wouldn’t. 

As a young vegan with Hollywood dreams, I thought I’d force my cast and crew to eat vegan food while they were on set. Of course I expected to have a vegan wedding. Realistically I might have compromised if I’d married an omni, but it would have been a major issue for me. 

Now that I eat meat I can see the other side of it. Vegans believe “vegan food is for everyone” because few people have serious moral qualms with fruits and vegetables. To vegan thinking, then, meat is divisive while vegan food is inclusive. Vegans expect meat eaters to enjoy vegan food as much as they do, not realizing that Morningstar Farms and Daiya have aided and abetted a collapse in their culinary standards. Go to NYC’s Veggie Conquest if you want to see how easy to please vegans are. It’s more of a challenge to appreciate “yummy vegan goodness” when you’re used to animal products and have no moral hang-ups. 

Vegans compare snippy omnivores at a vegan wedding to gentiles complaining about the lack of pork and shellfish at a kosher wedding. That’s not a fair comparison because the kosher wedding can still have chicken, fish, lamb or beef. Going without pork for a celebratory meal is not the same as going without meat all together. Sorry tempeh, tofu, TVP and seitan, but meat is tastier and more satisfying. 

On the other hand, vegans think meat is slavery! Yet meat eaters want vegans to cater to their immoral craving for dead animal chunks? Would you expect abolitionists getting married in the pre-Civil War South to have a few slaves working the reception just to appease their demanding racist relatives? Of course it’s an outrageous comparison, but that’s how many ethical vegans see it (your eyes can open to some truly offensive comparisons once you accept anti-speciesist logic). What upset meat eating guests at vegan weddings need to understand is that vegans think meat is evil. Not all of them would put it that way, but at the very least most vegans would classify meat as “very bad.” Why should they taint their joyous occasion because you think lasagna tastes better with a layer of ground up sentient beings? 

Ethical vegans are morally opposed to contributing to the death of animals. If they have a wedding and serve meat, well, they’re as blood-drenched as Carrie on prom night. Now that I think about it, I’d feel kind of bad if I went to a wedding between two vegans and there was meat. No doubt I’d eat it, but I wouldn’t like that the bride and groom were probably feeling like they’d let the animals down on their big day.   

Vegans rightly point out that it’s only one damn meal without meat. But then that logic backfires when meat eaters choose not to have a vegetarian option at their wedding. Except for vegans it’s worse, since that means one damn meal without food at all. Granted, in both scenarios it’s the vegans causing trouble in some way (to themselves in the case of the omnivore wedding and to omnivores in the case of their vegan wedding). So in a sense it’s always the vegans’ fault. 

Plus the “only one meal” argument does downplay how dreadful weddings can be if you have nothing to look forward to at the reception. Nobody really cares that two people are promising to stay together forever. Okay, if it’s your close friends or family members you do. But for many of the guests, weddings are nothing without food and alcohol. As the wedding approaches, they’re mostly thinking about gorging themselves and getting drunk. I know there are exceptions because I am one, but come on. Bad food is much worse at wedding.

Still. When vegans are getting married, you’ve got to let their morals come first. 

The last wedding I went to was a vegan wedding. I expected this because the two people getting married were vegan. However, they never at any point said “all the food would be vegan.” There was no talk of food at all beforehand. My guess was that it would be vegan, but I couldn’t be sure that their parents hadn’t pulled a meaty coup.

I was excited about the wedding no matter what, but the slight hope that there might be meat made me look forward to it even more. It was only once I got into the buffet line that I learned corpses hadn’t made the cut. I was disappointed, but there was a decent salad and I got full enough. It was about half an hour of meatless eating and then it was time to dance. 

The worst thing about a vegan wedding for meat eaters is all the time spent anticipating a lackluster meal. So vegans, keep your weddings vegan. Just don’t tell us beforehand. 

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For Rvnbrgj11, Meatless Monday leads to frustration and self-ruin. Judging by the end of her rant, that could be just what proponents of Meatless Monday are hoping for.

 

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Should Vegans Hate Meat Eaters?

MartinV: It’s true that some vegans insult meat eaters and even veggies. But people who care about non-humans understandably feel rage at the way humans treat them. Just like most people would feel rage if they heard a rapist or pedophile describing how much they enjoy what they do. Denouncing wrongdoers and insulting them is very unlikely to get them to change their ways but it is very difficult sometimes not to do so.

Huw MacDonald: I think that we should hate arrogant, cruel and heartless meat-eaters that, for example, hunt, fish or eat at KFC despite knowing the cruelty involved. People who say we, as vegetarians/vegans, are pointless and wrong are idiots! However, it’s not right to hate every meat-eater. The majority of people are good, honest people who are mostly unaware of the cruelty practises of the meat industry.

Juli F: I don’t believe that we should hate/dislike the meat eaters, and they shouldn’t hate us. Just because we have a heart and care about animals as much as we do doesn’t give them a right to give us a hard time or rub it in our faces. … It’s not our fault they’re so heartless.

Tori L: We agree that meat *is* murder? And thus, if others are eating meat, don’t we have an ethical responsibility to speak out? i mean, you would speak out if you saw a person murdered, correct? in the words of reverend doctor martin luther king, “our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.” and in the words of the amazing film Swing Kids, “If those of us who have a voice do not raise it in outrage at the treatment of our fellow human beings, we will have collaborated in their doom.” i think that also applies to animals. am i saying we should hate meat-eaters? no. but i don’t universally hate murderers either- because that doesn’t accomplish anything.

Nate Morey: I personally have tried not to hate people for eating meat but have you ever talked to them about it? if you talk to them, i mean REALLY talk to them, there is NO WAY you could not hate them. ALL — not most — ALL people who eat meat and do not need it (and you only need it if you’re poor and it’s the only choice, no other reason is good enough) to live, are heartless morons. Now don’t think of me as bad, i’m not, but it’s hard for me to feel ANY compassion for people who do not return the favor. honestly as an example if someone needs my blood to live and ate meat… i would let them die. think about it, if they live they will cause many animals to die. and i think an animal is worth more than a stupid self indulging meat eater any day.

Seth Mair: Hate that they are fascist and support exploitation of animals. Love whatever part of them you can. It is hard for me to handle.

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So I Married Someone Who Calls Me “Murderer”

İlk Bahar: Recently I’ve found myself in a dilemma. A dilemma that had made me feel so ill. I have met someone who is a Vegan. We are very similar and we seem to get along so fine. But the only difference that we have is that he is a Vegan and I am once or twice a week meat eater. …

What I don’t like about him is the way he is going on about it. He is very clear-cut about this subject. He says he cannot kiss someone who has eaten meat, the thought will just make him feel ill, and his morals will be in the way of his love. He says he does not want me to eat meat in front of him, but he says he’ll socialize with me even if there is meat served on the table or go to family meals. …

I respect him totally, but he imposes on me what he believes. He says that he is showing me the truth to peace and love, but he is doing this by saying “You’re like the other meat eaters, you exploit animals, you’re one of those murderers and if you’re going to be with me, you’ll need to choose.” …This makes me feel so bad and horrible inside, and I ask myself, is this right what he is saying, and how he is saying it?

Jessica F: Wow. This post made me cry. I’m in a similar situation.

My husband and I have been married for six years and have three children together. He is a raw-vegan and I am a recent vegan back to vegetarian. When we met, he was just starting to become vegan and i was an omnivore. I would explore vegan food with him and keep an open mind about it and cook vegan meals for us. I always struggled with trying to go vegan. Even after we had our first two children and they were eating vegan, I still struggled. After the birth of my third child, I went vegan and remained that way for two years, until he went raw. It’s been so FREAKING difficult with him. Just as I was becoming acclimated to a new way of eating, he went and decided to eat some other way.

I found it hard to continue to eating vegan-ly since he was no longer eating the same things we once enjoyed together. I have gone back to eating dairy and eggs. I have had a piece of fish here and there. He knows this and he is very rude to me and our children when we eat dairy. He will claim that the dairy is giving our children behavioral issues. He will ask me how i like my cow puss. He knows that I struggle with this, but he is so mean about it. I don’t understand why he can’t accept me for who I am, that being vegan, vegetarian, whatever. I have never asked him to change anything about himself. It’s to the point now I would rather lie to him about what I eat than tell him the truth because he looks down his nose at me.

I don’t know what to do. Is this a salvageable relationship?

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Vegans Vs. The World

AshleyKimball: I wake up in the morning sometimes and “forget” the world isn’t vegan.  Then I go ANYWHERE and try to do my vegan stuff and get looked at cock-eyed, then remember how crappy the world can be. 

Linda: Once your eyes are opened, the inhumanity humans display in the supermarket is overwhelming.

BCSH: For a long time I’ve wanted to create my own nation. Preferably on an island. A vegan nation. A cruelty free nation where all beings are equal in terms of compassion. … Sometimes I hate the world and think there’s no hope for humanity. Sometimes I hate humanity. But I’m forever the optimist.

ShaolinBunny: I know exactly how you feel. I’m just waiting for my *real* people/family to come pick me up off earth and take me home—my aliens from another benevolent planet far far away in the universe where beings treat each other and their planet with pure kindness and love. Where are they, dammit?!!! I’ve been waiting forever! Why haven’t I been beamed up and transported home, yet? And why have they abandoned me here to dwell among the millions of a**holes who don’t give a crap about anything?!!!

Compassionate Vegetarian: Humans are bastards. It’s as simple as that. Fuck human suffering. They inflict so much misery and atrocities upon absolutely innocent animals that I find it impossible to feel pity or sadness for human tragedy. Fuck humans. Animal rights and welfare are all that concern me.

Carl Hiaasen Rules: Compassionate Vegetarian, I agree with you five billion percent. Where the hell is that damned pandemic scientists keep yapping about??? Even if it kills me in the process, I’ll at least die knowing the earth has shaken off a good chunk of the parasitic human race.

Kimberlily1983: I have days like that too, when I’m disgusted by people. It’s so hard, but I tell myself that not getting past that anger in some cases harms the animals more, because it shuts people off to the message I’m trying to spread. Sometimes I feel like I’m living a lie, trying to tone down my message so as to not turn people off from the beginning. I can’t start with something like, “If you were a good person, you wouldn’t put them through that, just so you can have your taste of bacon, or whatever it is.” But it’s often what I’m thinking.

faunablues: At the moment, I’m more or less at peace with family and friends around me who haven’t chosen to be vegan or vegetarian. It helps to think of them as future vegans…

CableRock: Does every one of the almost 7 billion people on this earth deserve better treatment than any other species? Regardless of the fact that it is humans and only humans who are full of malice and hate and greed and murder. Why do you put our species as a whole on a pedestal? Every other animal has been living in balance with the earth, and then we come in and totally fuck the entire planet up. It’s not that I have a heightened sense of caring for animals, it’s just that I do not blindly value human life like some of you do. Most humans are ignorant worthless piles of meat and the world would benefit without them. People are responsible for their own suffering, as well as the suffering of probably every other animal on the planet. Fuck them all.

KKJ: I hate people, and yes, I hate being a person. I am ashamed of what species I happened to be born into. … Yes dear, I can be for animals, excluding those of the human type. I do not care who gets killed in a car wreck, or falls from a bridge, or rather my favorite, killed by a wild animal because they wanted to get a “better” picture of that animal and got too close. I absolutely celebrate hunting accidents and encourage everyone to just kill every other person they get the chance to kill. I think it is great, because it is rewarding to see that my idea of humans is correct and validates my reasoning for despising them in the first place. Humans are and always have been selfish, greedy, fearful, jealous, angry and having no compassion for anything other than their own personal desires… I cannot see why others can not see this in your face fact. I guess it harms the ego of even the most active of activist to think they are so awful.

Vegan Bug: I’ve found that over the summer I have spent most of my waking hours reading over animal rights blogs, books, news reports, and anything else I can get my hands on. Sometimes there are good stories to be found, heartwarming stories of compassion. But more often then not, harmful legislation is being passed, bastardly humans are doing evil things to animals, or some idiotic moron actually tries to convince us that humans are naturally better then animals. What I’m saying is that I found I needed to step back from the movement for a little while and somehow try to restore my faith in humanity.

TKitty96: Sorry, but I hold no hope for humanity.  I gave that up long ago.  I still do what I can to ease suffering, and I am still sometimes appalled by the things that others do.  I am no longer surprised by them, though.  That’s sad.

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